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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 7 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1454<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Question<BR>
Re : One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
Re: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
Re: Re CGI scripts<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
GT:Nobles Want List (was Re: Question)<BR>
Re: Morons with wrenches [was sci-fi films]<BR>
Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
RE: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
Re: Re CGI scripts<BR>
RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
RE: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Re:  Question<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:14:35 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Question<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
> The question has come up in house WRT GT Nobles: What does the<BR>
> fanbase want to see.<BR>
<BR>
In *addition* to everything else that has/will be suggested,  how<BR>
about a sort of 'Traveller'ised En Guarde for  life  on  Capital?<BR>
(Its always been on my list of things to do but I never got round<BR>
to it.)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:48:40 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re : One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
<BR>
> The original government type M goes back to CT and was meant to refer to<BR>
> government by the Military, usually following a coup, ie Uganda under Idi<BR>
> Amin etc.<BR>
<BR>
Ming the Merciless had to exercise considerable restraint after the coup<BR>
not to assume the title "General Doctor Minister President-for-Life".  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:28:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Maybe it's just me, but Traveller nobility seems to be a rather narrow topic <BR>
> > for a 128 page book. And not a very interesting topic at that, either.<BR>
> > Brandon Cope<BR>
> <BR>
> It's not just you. I don't foresee buying it.<BR>
> <BR>
I'd buy it and I wouldn't mind helping to write it...  I played a lot of<BR>
them and have a degree in Mediaeval History.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:37:25 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CGI scripts<BR>
<BR>
On 7 Dec 99, at 9:31, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well supported is sort of an oxymoron. Being in NZ you probably aren't<BR>
> aware just *what* "uswest" *is*. It's the regional *phone company*. Need I<BR>
> say more?<BR>
<BR>
"Shrug" The two biggest ISPs in NZ are wholely owned subsidaries of the <BR>
two major telephone companies. The one I'm with gets quite a lot of its <BR>
business by running the local telephone/cable TV company's internet <BR>
service.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:37:25 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
On 7 Dec 99, at 3:15, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:22 PM 12/6/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I don't mean to be rude, but did you consider the fact that it was<BR>
> >*meant* to be a black comedy in the first place? I mean, this was not a<BR>
> >surprising concept. Paul Verhoeven has built a career around extremely<BR>
> >violent, action-packed science-fiction black comedies. I'm utterly<BR>
> >confused by anyone who expected this movie to be serious or in any way<BR>
> >accurate.<BR>
> <BR>
> Many of us hoped that a movie called "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers"<BR>
> would have more resemblance to the book than a few names and a sketched<BR>
> out plot.  Ginny Heinlein tried to have The Master's name removed after<BR>
> seeing a pre-release print. -- <BR>
<BR>
It seems to be a depressingly common thing with sci-fi movies and TV <BR>
series. They get made and then when the authors of the books they were <BR>
'based' on and the science advisors who advised actually see the things <BR>
they want nothing to do with them.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:37:25 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
On 7 Dec 99, at 3:21, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In that incredible first 20 minutes, you see that most of the troops are<BR>
> cowering on the beach trying very hard to Be Somewhere Else.  That's what<BR>
> leadership is about.  The motto of the US Infantry is "Follow Me!", and<BR>
> it's also the order you give when everything else has gone to shit.  Go<BR>
> get them.<BR>
<BR>
And it's at that point that you find out just what your men really <BR>
thinnk of you as a leader.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:37:36 -0700<BR>
From: scharlto@ifsna.com<BR>
Subject: GT:Nobles Want List (was Re: Question)<BR>
<BR>
Loren, thank you for casting your net in the troll-infested<BR>
waters.  I hope you don't get sucked in!<BR>
<BR>
Things I want to know about Nobles:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Integration of Nobles into Imperial Worlds.  How do the<BR>
Nobles operate on worlds that have an implied or actual<BR>
non-noble government.  How are fiefs arranged.  Does the<BR>
Imperium require worlds to cede control over sections of a world<BR>
to set up a feif?  Does the Imperium create concessions (a Baron<BR>
rules the ground starport, and another Baron rules the lands for<BR>
100 klicks around the Scout Base, and a third noble hold the<BR>
patent to a gas giant refueling station).<BR>
<BR>
2.  Inheritance Laws.  Clear up the distinction between Birth<BR>
Nobles and Honor Nobles.  Explain how Imperial law or custom<BR>
handles inheritance of titles and properties.  If a Duke has<BR>
three children, and the eldest is his title heir, what happens<BR>
to the others?  Are they now deemed to be at one lower noble<BR>
rank level?  Are they dispossessed?  How is property divided.<BR>
What sort of confirmation or right of refusal does the Emperor<BR>
exercise over the lower nobles.<BR>
<BR>
3.  Nobles and the Local Law.  What power (if any) does a local<BR>
Imperial World have over a visiting noble?  Can a non-noble<BR>
court try a noble?<BR>
<BR>
4.  Nobles and the Military.  The Domain Archdukes have ion the<BR>
past had influence and command over Imperial forces in their<BR>
Domain, but this power was lost during one of the post Civil War<BR>
reforms.  How much control does a planetary, subsector or sector<BR>
noble have over Imperial forces.  What about Household troops?<BR>
Any rules governing size and equipment for these guys?  Can the<BR>
Imperial military give commands to Household Troops?<BR>
<BR>
5.  Noble Obligations.  Either real or traditional.  Are there<BR>
any?  Can a noble be impeached by a higher noble?  What are his<BR>
forms of redress?<BR>
<BR>
6.  Knights.  How do they fit into all of the above statements?<BR>
Some sample Imperial Knightly Orders would be cool.<BR>
<BR>
7.  Non-Imperial Nobles.  An Imperial member state happens to be<BR>
a Kingdom.  How the the King, the Dukes, the Barons and the<BR>
Knights of this world fit into the hierarchy of Imperial<BR>
Nobility?<BR>
<BR>
Hope that was not too much - I am obviously a very curious<BR>
person.  I have my own answers to these questions in MY<BR>
Traveller Universe, but I would like to see the answers for an<BR>
Official Traveller Universe (or a semi-official GURPS Traveller<BR>
Universe!).<BR>
<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
<BR>
>From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
<BR>
> The question has come up in house WRT GT Nobles: What does the<BR>
fanbase want<BR>
> to see. One suggestion is to do a collection of PCs (a la<BR>
GURPS Wizards or<BR>
> GURPS Warriors), but I find this unsatisfactory (although any<BR>
such book<BR>
> will need to give the most important Imperial nobles as PCs).<BR>
How much<BR>
> should e devoted to life at the Imperial court? What burning<BR>
questions<BR>
> (about nobles) need to be addressed? How many angels can dance<BR>
on a<BR>
> pinhead, and why does he put up with it at all?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:47:50 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Morons with wrenches [was sci-fi films]<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> You'll be pleased to know that one of the crew who didn't have his<BR>
> suit with him..this was a drill on the tarmac..did precisely that.<BR>
> He jumpped into a rescue ball and rolled it down the corridor toward<BR>
> the airlock.  That blocked our "naked guy" from escaping back down<BR>
> the corridor allowing him to be "saved" by being stuffed into a<BR>
> suit.  Bruce, you want to tell 'em *why* you called the drill?  <g><BR>
<BR>
Oh to wake the naked guy up, of course. He was late for the morning<BR>
meeting, having been slacking the night before with our good Doctor at a<BR>
concert and fancy dinner.<BR>
<BR>
:-P<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the _official_ reason was 'to guage crew readiness' for<BR>
emergencies.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:53:17 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
The thing with SAAB was that it's initial season was really uneven, but it<BR>
should have been given a chance.  Every SF show, it seems, needs a season<BR>
to work out the kinks.  I tried watching B5 the first season and was<BR>
repulsed.  Started watching again in the 3rd one and was totally hooked!<BR>
Same with S:TNG. Not that it every got really good IMO, but it went from<BR>
terrible to okay by third season.<BR>
<BR>
Back to SAAB Problems:<BR>
<BR>
1. It needed someone with military knowledge as an assistant director (or<BR>
maybe someone who had once read a book about the military, or who had<BR>
lived within a few miles of an army base or SOMETHING! :-) <BR>
<BR>
2. The banking fighters were okay.  They were semi-realistic with the<BR>
rolling ability and stuff, but why not go all the way and do vector<BR>
movement?<BR>
<BR>
3. Some episodes were unwatchable due to bad acting and writing.  The<BR>
"Little tank that could" one was terrible and the "Flickering light as<BR>
psych weapon" one was beyond horrible. <BR>
<BR>
Having said that, I thought some episodes were brilliant: "Who Monitors<BR>
the Birds" was great!  I should've been given some time to get its legs<BR>
under itself...<BR>
<BR>
Lesson for SF TV writers:  Keep the number of characters small so you can<BR>
actually develop them a little!  Three main characters with 3 secondary<BR>
seems to be a winning formula (Think Kirk / Spock / McCoy with Scotty /<BR>
Sulu / Chekov).<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:50:24 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Eric Henry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I thought the show much better than B5 or star trek.<BR>
<BR>
B5 was just different, with major league politics, unsurpassed character<BR>
development, highs and lows. <BR>
<BR>
SA&B is what i envision Star Trek should have been like for the away team.<BR>
With people really getting scared when down on some hell hole with something<BR>
firing at you. <BR>
<BR>
Star Trek has its good points to. I like the ships, the feel of space travel.<BR>
ST makes it possible to dream yourself away. I didn't like the really bad<BR>
holoroom episodes, the handwaving physics and really bad away team actions.<BR>
Why Capt. picard never got court marshaled for the death of Tasha Yar I'll<BR>
never know.<BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:55:50 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
Because they always take just enough redshirts with them to draw fire.<BR>
<BR>
I can just see it now: "Star Trek the Outtakes"<BR>
<BR>
"Ensign Redshirt, report for Landing party duty!"<BR>
<BR>
Next we see Ensign Redshirt bein physically dragged down the corridor..."I<BR>
don't wanna diiiiieeeee!!!", with security crew calling out on the comms<BR>
"Dead Man Walking!" <BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Tommy Grav wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >And an officer who shoots his own men, when he could've nailed the bug <BR>
> >and gone and recovered his man. And they send their sigs to high ground <BR>
> >with no security. Sigs may be a lower form of life, but they do have <BR>
> >their uses (carrying heavy radios and soaking sniper fire, for <BR>
> >starters).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >When I first saw it my friends (not ex-military) had to physically shut <BR>
> >me up in the theatre. They were just _so_ incompentent. Next time I saw <BR>
> >it I looked upon it as a comedy - much better that way.<BR>
> <BR>
> This is exactly the problem I have (or one of the problems) with Star Trek,<BR>
> who the hell sends down their main officers to an unsecure planet to <BR>
> investigate some unknown phenomena, armed only with a hand phaser.<BR>
> <BR>
> They just went through showin Space Above and Beyond here and for all<BR>
> its shortcoming, I like the fact that these guys/girls go down to<BR>
> planets, armed with real guns :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> >Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
> <BR>
> Tommy Grav<BR>
> -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
> Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
> IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
>  <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:59:05 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
I thought Court Martial only happened when you lost a ship.  Even then you<BR>
could be acquitted.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 2:07 PM<BR>
Subject: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Star Trek has its good points to. I like the ships, the feel of space<BR>
travel.<BR>
>ST makes it possible to dream yourself away. I didn't like the really bad<BR>
>holoroom episodes, the handwaving physics and really bad away team actions.<BR>
>Why Capt. picard never got court marshaled for the death of Tasha Yar I'll<BR>
>never know.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:00:15 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
> > Maybe it's just me, but Traveller nobility seems to be a rather<BR>
> > narrow topic for a 128 page book. And not a very interesting<BR>
> > topic at that, either.<BR>
> > Brandon Cope<BR>
><BR>
> It's not just you. I don't foresee buying it.<BR>
> Carlos Alos-Ferrer <BR>
<BR>
Are you guys kidding?  I've been waiting for something like  this<BR>
since before the T4 version that never was ... back since  CT  in<BR>
fact.  And 128 pages  seems  short  to  do  justice  to  such  an<BR>
important aspect of the TU.<BR>
<BR>
IMHO Traveller is 1 part Military, 1 part Merchant,  and  1  part<BR>
Noble.  We've had plenty of military stuff  and  merchant  stuff,<BR>
but for Nobles its been mainly ad hoc articles.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:08:38 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Re CGI scripts<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 7 Dec 99, at 9:31, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Well supported is sort of an oxymoron. Being in NZ you probably aren't<BR>
> > aware just *what* "uswest" *is*. It's the regional *phone company*. Need I<BR>
> > say more?<BR>
> <BR>
> "Shrug" The two biggest ISPs in NZ are wholely owned subsidaries of the <BR>
> two major telephone companies. The one I'm with gets quite a lot of its <BR>
> business by running the local telephone/cable TV company's internet <BR>
> service.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Also, don't forget, the most common name for US West is US Pest, and this<BR>
is whether you're buying voice or data services from them.<BR>
<BR>
This is a phone company that cannot guarantee that 911 works.<BR>
<BR>
Scary real incident: a guy (who has been voiciferously compaining about<BR>
US Pest to the local regulatory agencies, btw) is working on his car. Car<BR>
falls off the jacks, pinning him under it. He reaches his cell phone,<BR>
dials 911. Repeatedly. <BR>
<BR>
Neighbor three blocks away cannot figure out why the Police are showing up<BR>
at their door, saying that 911 has been dialed from there. This happens<BR>
once _while_ the cops are there, talking to the homeowners, pohone in<BR>
plain sight, NOT BEING USED.  <BR>
<BR>
Finally, the people happen to remember that<BR>
they get calls that are supposed to be for this neighbor, tell police to<BR>
check out _that_ address.<BR>
<BR>
US Pest finally admits that there _might_ be some minor bug in their<BR>
phone system. <BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:08:44 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> I can just see it now: "Star Trek the Outtakes"<BR>
><BR>
> "Ensign Redshirt, report for Landing party duty!"<BR>
><BR>
> Next we see Ensign Redshirt bein physically dragged down the<BR>
> corridor..."I don't wanna diiiiieeeee!!!", with security crew<BR>
> calling out on the comms "Dead Man Walking!" <BR>
<BR>
ROFLOL<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 21:23:17 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
<BR>
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>
> Are you guys kidding?  I've been waiting for something like  this<BR>
> since before the T4 version that never was ... back since  CT  in<BR>
> fact.  And 128 pages  seems  short  to  do  justice  to  such  an<BR>
> important aspect of the TU.<BR>
<BR>
I think 128 pages will work out quite fine. I started Traveller with T4,<BR>
and got REALLY upset when Nobles never left the drawing board. There is<BR>
some material in M0: Campaign, but it isn't enough.<BR>
<BR>
I just realized another thing I want to see in the book. A yatch or two<BR>
would be really nice. A description of a noble's estate (example, maps<BR>
and stuff) would also be really neat and a potential lifesaver for<BR>
referees.<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 12:19:17 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GT Nobles (Re: Question)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
><BR>
>Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
> > > Maybe it's just me, but Traveller nobility seems to be a rather<BR>
> > > narrow topic for a 128 page book. And not a very interesting<BR>
> > > topic at that, either.<BR>
> > > Brandon Cope<BR>
> ><BR>
> > It's not just you. I don't foresee buying it.<BR>
> > Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
><BR>
>IMHO Traveller is 1 part Military, 1 part Merchant,  and  1  part<BR>
>Noble.  We've had plenty of military stuff  and  merchant  stuff,<BR>
>but for Nobles its been mainly ad hoc articles.<BR>
<BR>
So what is so interesting about nobles that they deserve their own book? I <BR>
can see how some people may be interested (the kinds of people who like to <BR>
play demi-gods in other campaigns), but I'm not that kind of person. Now, if <BR>
you included a fair amount of material on diplomatic missions (both inside <BR>
and outside the Imperium), that might be interesting, but diplomacy doesn't <BR>
really have that much to do with nobles (not any more than trading or war).<BR>
<BR>
Despite the fact that I got GT: Far Trader, I find merchants boring as well <BR>
as nobles. I liked GT: Star Mercs, but have no intention of running a purely <BR>
mercenary/military campaign (just as boring). But a Scouts campaign ... ah, <BR>
now there's something enteresting.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 12:22:44 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
>From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
><BR>
>I thought Court Martial only happened when you lost a ship.  Even then you<BR>
>could be acquitted.<BR>
<BR>
You can get court martialed for anything other than very minor offences (and <BR>
maybe even for those). Despite opinions to the contrary, Star Fleet is <BR>
_obviously_ a military organization.<BR>
<BR>
(which makes their policy of carrying families along assinine)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:11:10 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  Question<BR>
<BR>
> From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
 <BR>
> The question has come up in house WRT GT Nobles: What does the fanbase want<BR>
> to see. One suggestion is to do a collection of PCs (a la GURPS Wizards or<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for seeking our input, Loren.  <BR>
<BR>
> What burning questions (about nobles) need to be addressed? <BR>
<BR>
I'd like to see some coverage of the Imperium's political economy and<BR>
history.  How did the noble class arise?  What functions does the class<BR>
fulfil in the Imperium, how have those functions changed over time, and<BR>
what functions have been added or dropped historically?  What was the<BR>
role of the noble class in the Civil War?  Did Arbellatra's reforms<BR>
affect the noble class, and, if so, how?  How do the tensions between<BR>
local autonomy and central authority play out, and where do the nobles<BR>
fit?<BR>
<BR>
> How much should be devoted to life at the Imperial court? <BR>
<BR>
Not much, although some background nuggets would add flavor.  <BR>
<BR>
Here is my view on the historical development of the nobility (in answer<BR>
to one of the burning questions):<BR>
<BR>
The noble class arose from the military and naval governors sent by the<BR>
conquering Terrans to manage parts of the collapsed Ziru Sirka.  Those<BR>
proconsuls, out of communication with the capital and on largely their<BR>
own for very long periods of time, decided to assume total control,<BR>
including control over their succession.  They accordingly followed<BR>
Terran models of hereditary nobility.  <BR>
<BR>
No doubt there was communication among the Terran governors about<BR>
whether this was a good and defensible idea; it certainly constituted<BR>
mutiny to the extent that naval and military officers were assuming<BR>
total local control and passing on their power to their kin or chosen<BR>
successors, rather than retiring through military channels.  <BR>
<BR>
So sometime during the Rule of Man, a noble class comprising Terran<BR>
naval and military officers (and probably some civilian appointees) came<BR>
into existence and imposed itself on the empire.  <BR>
<BR>
Did the Vilani have a concept of a noble class that could accommodate<BR>
and assimilate this new development?<BR>
<BR>
During the Long Night, the nobility acquired even more local control and<BR>
formed little empires of their own.  Many Vilani assumed Solomani names<BR>
and made themselves into nobles.  <BR>
<BR>
When Cleon formed the Third Imperium, he had a pre-existing noble class<BR>
in the newly acquired territories that he could use.  He would offer<BR>
continuation of the status quo and support if they would offer fealty,<BR>
taxes, and troops.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn M. Goffin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:52:18<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 10:21 AM 12/7/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So which of the Archdukes is Cartman?<BR>
<BR>
Based on girth, Norris.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:55:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
At 05:24 PM 12/7/1999 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Eric Henry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>I loved that show!  What were some of the shortcomings?  <BR>
<BR>
>	4. Some tactics stuff. Admittedly I have never been <BR>
>           in the army, but some of the ground tactics stuff<BR>
>           seems rather stupid. <BR>
<BR>
There were several times when I just said "one grenade."  Since all the<BR>
actors demanded "face time", they bunched up like a flock of sheep in a<BR>
blizzard.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:56:17 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
I've heard it most closely associated to the Coast Guard<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
>><BR>
>>I thought Court Martial only happened when you lost a ship.  Even then you<BR>
>>could be acquitted.<BR>
><BR>
>You can get court martialed for anything other than very minor offences<BR>
(and<BR>
>maybe even for those). Despite opinions to the contrary, Star Fleet is<BR>
>_obviously_ a military organization.<BR>
><BR>
>(which makes their policy of carrying families along assinine)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 16:01:40 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
At 12:16 PM 12/7/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Gentlebeings:<BR>
><BR>
>The question has come up in house WRT GT Nobles: What does the fanbase want<BR>
>to see. One suggestion is to do a collection of PCs (a la GURPS Wizards or<BR>
>GURPS Warriors), but I find this unsatisfactory (although any such book<BR>
>will need to give the most important Imperial nobles as PCs).<BR>
<BR>
I agree.  Although Wizards/Warriors are useful to newbies and for NPCs, I'd <BR>
much rather see a true sourcebook instead.  I _would_ like to see the <BR>
stats/writeups for a sampling of "official" nobles (Strephon and Norris <BR>
come to mind...) for use as NPCs, but I wouldn't make that the focus of the <BR>
book.  Maybe a dozen at most, with some "important" canon nobles and some <BR>
"generic" barons and knights.<BR>
<BR>
Also potentially useful would be some noble templates.<BR>
<BR>
>How much<BR>
>should e devoted to life at the Imperial court?<BR>
<BR>
Lots.  And not just at Imperial court, what's life at the Archducal court <BR>
in the Marches like?  How about at the court of a sector Duke?  A local Baron?<BR>
<BR>
>  What burning questions<BR>
>(about nobles) need to be addressed? How many angels can dance on a<BR>
>pinhead, and why does he put up with it at all?<BR>
<BR>
How many nobles are there (both absolute and as a ratio to populace).  Are <BR>
Imperial barons one to a planet or are there a dozen in every government <BR>
building?  Just what positions require/grant noble title?<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1454<BR>
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